Women in STEM feature — Professor Jenny Graves

Who are you? Tell us a bit about yourself!

I grew up in Adelaide and went to Uni there in the 1960s, then sailed off to Berkeley, in California, to do my PhD. I was there five exciting years, during which I got involved in antiwar protests, singing, fell in love and married, as well as doing my experiments on how cells divide. I returned to Melbourne in 1971 to a lecturing job at La Trobe Uni. We lived in a commune for some years, had two daughters, then moved to Eltham, where we still live. I enjoyed my work but I was not particularly dedicated, and never had the slightest pretensions of becoming a famous scientist. I stayed at La Trobe for 30 years, eventually becoming a professor; then I had ten marvellous years at ANU in Canberra, where I ran a big lab and ultimately founded and directed a national Centre of Excellence. I returned to Melbourne in 2011 to a wonderful position at La Trobe — it doesn’t pay much but I can do whatever I like; largely writing and speaking and mentoring younger staff.

What field of Science are you in?

Genetics and genomics, the most exciting and rapidly changing field there is. I work on sex — how genes and chromosomes determine whether you are a boy or girl, and what genetic and functional differences underlie male and female biology, gender identity and sexuality.

What drew you to Science in general?

I often wonder. Both my parents were scientists but my best subjects (and the only prizes I ever won at school) were in art, creative writing and geography! I never liked biology at school — too much stuff to learn and no order, I thought. Then I discovered evolution, the great law that accounts for all the crazy biology you see in nature. And it turns out that what we discover in evolutionary biology has lots to say about the human condition.

How did you end up in your particular field?

I credit my year 12 biology teacher and a class on Mendel’s laws of genetics. She told us that if you mated blue and yellow budgerigars all the chicks are green, but if you mated two of these green birds, their chicks were ¼ blue, ½ green and ¼ yellow. So there are laws of nature. I was hooked!

What pathways did you take to enter the field you are currently working in?

I did science at Adelaide Uni, Honours in genetics and physical chemistry, which was a really weird combination then, but turns out to be exactly what you need for molecular biology. Then a PhD in molecular and cell biology at the University of California, one of the world’s best universities. I figured out how to fuse animal cells from different species together, and use this system to explore how animal cell growth is controlled. I didn’t know it then, but this somatic cell genetic technology was the real breakthrough in mapping genes, so back in Australia I used it to get gene maps of Australian mammals like kangaroos and platypus. I didn’t know it then, but gene mapping was the backbone of genome sequence, and the beginning of the international Human Genome Project, which I became involved in as co-chair of Comparative Genomics. I didn’t know it then, but Australian animals turn out to be different enough from human to give us a unique perspective on how the human genome evolved and how it works. So you see I have been very lucky that, time and time again, I got into strange little niches that turned out to be the next big thing in biology.

What does your average day at work look like? What does your job entail exactly?

My day job is rather unique. I am 78 but not retired (how could I retire when genetics and genomics are so exciting?), and have a very part time staff position as “Distinguished Professor” in the School of Life Sciences at La Trobe. When I won the PM Prize for Science in 2017 they thought they should employ me a bit more, so now I am also a “Vice Chancellor’s Fellow”, and supposedly a “public intellectual”. So most days I do something energetic in the morning (I grow berries in a big way), then write in the afternoon — I am finishing a book about sex and sex chromosomes. I am involved in several research projects on sex and genetics in collaborations (national and international) that I have built up over the years. It is very exciting, and means that I am still writing research papers. I also do so some radio work and write popular science articles (largely about sex).

Do you feel like there is some disparity in terms of gender equality in your field?

Yes, it’s still a rather male world, but nowhere near to the extent as when I was a student. I was one of two girls in my final chemistry subject at Adelaide University, then as an honours student in genetics, and to this day remember the exclusion I faced every day. It was a rather lonely existence.

When I had my first baby, I was expected to resign (thankfully I resisted this because I was the sole wage earner while my husband was studying); there was no parental leave, so my daughter saw a lot of the lab from her baby basket. Things are very much better now, and there is a lot more attention paid to encouraging and retaining women in science. But it’s still tough when you have kids; women’s roles are absolutely not equitable, and satisfactory childcare is expensive and hard to find. Parental leave is a lifesaver, but means that it is hard to stay engaged in science and keep the experiments rolling.

Do you think society plays a role in women entering/ not entering STEM related fields? If so, how do you think we can combat it?

For sure. I know a lot of girls who were actively discouraged from doing science by their families. And by their career teachers. “Too hard.” “Leads to jobs that are usually taken by men”. I hope the picture of science is changing away from the blokey image of the old white guy in a white lab coat sitting over his Bunsen burner.

How would you encourage young girls to enter a field like yours?

I used to give a lot of talks in schools, but there’s only so many students you can reach this way. I do some radio work and write popular articles for The Conversation, which have a wider reach (my first article has been read by nearly a million people). My next book will be stories from my lab, written specifically for young people who are considering science careers, to emphasise how fun and interesting a life it is. Work study is a great way of attracting students because they see how much life in the lab and the field is, but it is almost impossible now to bring young people into a lab environment without a host of safety rules.

More broadly, I think the key is to make science more exciting and inclusive in primary school. I ran wonderful school education programs for the Australian Academy of Science for some years, and attracting girls was one of our aims. At present I am trying to organise a STEM Explorer science camp for Year 9 students through the National Youth Science Foundation — for both sexes, but attracts more girls than boys.

Interview by Samyuktha Sriganesh and Srushti Shah